In the afternoon, we gathered four people at Perich, a family-owned café on Besnard Green Road, London, which has been part of the East End for 125 years. The lively and renowned owners, British-Italian brothers Nevio and Anna, have been delighting patrons with fry-ups, soups, pasta, and jam rolly-polly since 8 am. Although the café is currently closed, Anna and Nevio are embarking on their second venture as hosts of a podcast series. The show features interviews exploring food and lifestyle, focusing on guests’ favorite meals. The discussions are fascinating, chaotic, and filled with surprises.

So far, they’ve welcomed the likes of actor Ray Winstone, Dexis’ Kevin Rowland, rapper Haku Baker, and 86-year-old YouTuber Marge Keefe, also known as Grime Gran. Today’s guests include TikTok star John Fisher, aka Big John, and his son, boxer Johnny Fisher. When I mention to Anna that she must be exhausted, she laughs and replies, “Tell me about it. Actually, tell him!” Their long-time producer, George Sexton Kerr, notes that he has been busy rearranging the Formica table for the film crew.

You might wonder why a film crew is involved. Podcasts are typically for the ears, not the eyes, right? However, recent trends have changed the way podcasts are consumed, with many shows now incorporating video. In February, YouTube reported that 1 billion users watch podcast content monthly, positioning the platform ahead of Spotify (which noted 100 million podcast listeners in 2023) and Apple in the podcasting space. With leading podcasts like The Joe Rogan Experience and The Mel Robbins Podcast, it’s no surprise that Spotify is working hard to catch up.

This year, the BBC launched visual adaptations of shows such as The Traitors: Uncloaked and Uncanny: Mortem in both video and audio formats. Business Insider reports that Netflix is also preparing to embrace visualized podcasts. To reflect this evolution, the British Podcast Awards introduced a new Visual Innovation Award to honor “Outstanding Visual Podcasts.” This indicates that whether one likes it or not, visualized podcasts, often referred to as “board casts,” are on the rise.

Conversations with both listeners and creators about this new audiovisual landscape reveal differing opinions. Dedicated audio enthusiasts reasonably question the need to watch a podcast when their TV watchlist is already overwhelming. Conversely, others delight in seeing familiar hosts in person. Independent audio producers, seeking anonymity, express concerns about YouTube’s dominance in the industry and worry that audio content might become “Crap Telly.”

It’s important to note that visualized podcasts aren’t necessarily competing with mainstream television. Just as celebrity interviewer Amelia Dimoldenberg, host of YouTube’s Chicken Shop Date, can coexist alongside BBC’s Graham Norton, visualized podcasts can exist beside high-quality television programming. Nonetheless, as a podcast enthusiast and critic, I admit I have my doubts. For me, the beauty of podcasts lies in the intimate experience of voice and soundscapes directly engaging my imagination. I often listen while multitasking, whether cooking or walking my dog. I don’t need yet another screen-based distraction.

That said, I’m excited about podcasts where the visuals serve a distinct purpose, such as the series launched by CAFF last year. Producer Sexton Kerr, who took two years to craft the series with Anna and Nevio, envisioned it as a comprehensive audiovisual experience. “I always wanted it to be multifaceted; it’s about food and this wonderful dynamic between Anna and Nevio. But it’s also about the beauty of sharing a conversation over tea.”

In the early episodes, Nevio admits, “There were moments of chaos because Anna and I were figuring it out, but mostly because George was guiding us,” [in both audio and visual formats].

When my producer friend discusses the pod, “Crunch Terry,” they refer to interview podcasts as ideal for visual mediums. Productions like Davina McCall’s Begin, Fashion Neurosis with Bella Freud, and Call Her Daddy illustrate how hosts and interviewees can thrive in visually engaging settings, complete with stylish decor and ambient lighting.

However, many productions fall short, either restricting camera angles to sound booths or presenting awkward Zoom calls. A prime example is The Rest Is Politics, a chart-topping series hosted by Rory Stewart and Alastair Campbell. Since the hosts rarely appear together, viewers see them on split screens, each illuminated from their respective homes. YouTube executive Pedlopina recently stated that the show “feels like high school” due to its lack of production quality, noting that “viewers will ultimately determine the production value they are willing to accept.”

Matt Deegan, partner at Podcast Discovery, a marketing firm for podcasts, remarked, “For some viewers, they may not frequently consume podcasts and instead watch shows. There is a younger audience that navigates YouTube without engaging with audio podcasts.”

Regardless of production quality, the video format is easily shareable on social media, enhancing the show’s visibility. Deegan states, “Repetitive exposure to engaging, informative, or entertaining content makes it much more likely for someone to engage with the podcast app.” Sexton Kerr adds, “We’ve been steadily posting clips on Instagram and TikTok, amassing over 400,000 views on some. We couldn’t afford such advertising.”

For interview podcasts, the advantages of video content are clear and straightforward. Transforming a narrative podcast into an appealing visual format is a more considerable challenge, but podcasters are starting to explore this. George Mpanga (aka poet George) and Bembrick, creator of Have You Heard of George’s Podcast?, a Peabody Award-winning series on race, history, and culture, are currently reworking their audio episodes for a video audience.

“You have to go where the audience is,” explains Bembrick. “Even if your primary focus is audio, it would be unwise to exclude platforms like YouTube. If you venture there, you increase your chances of resonating with that content. We feel ready to experiment, and we’re curious about how it will turn out. I don’t believe we’ve reached the final form yet.”

Does all of this spell doom for audio? While some industry insiders worry that the rise of video podcasts may sideline indie podcasters in an increasingly competitive market, Bembrick is optimistic that it will create space for productions that truly prioritize audio.

Back at Perich, Nevio brings two jam tarts on giant plates to our table, and Sexton Kerr remarks that everything is interwoven. “It’s like the video of that song killed the radio star. But we still have radio stars. I still have podcasts I cherish listening to, so I believe there’s room for both.”